The yr was 1999. A few of us have been ready for our dial-up to connect with The Web whereas rewinding our Blockbuster VHS rental of “There’s One thing About Mary” and listening to Britney Spears’ ”… Child One Extra Time” on our Sony Walkman.
A few of us on the time have been teenagers who scraped collectively $5 each time a film poster with vibrant, youthful faces flanked our native cinema. There have been a whole lot of them over the last yr of the 20th century: “10 Issues I Hate About You,” “Merciless Intentions,” “By no means Been Kissed,” “American Pie.”
However solely a type of movies may be credited with ushering in a hyper-era of adlescent flicks, and that’s “She’s All That.” Premiering on Jan. 29, 1999, the film tells a narrative that’s felt rote for the reason that daybreak of teenage-perspective motion pictures. Neurotic highschool jock Zack Siler (post-“I Know What You Did Final Summer season” Freddie Prinze Jr.) bets his oafish buddy Dean Sampson (Paul Walker) that he can flip the purportedly underwhelming, glasses-wearing artist Laney Boggs (Rachael Leigh Cook dinner) into the varsity’s promenade queen, a vendetta impressed to irk Zach’s ex-girlfriend Taylor Vaughan (Jodi Lyn O’Keefe).
It’s a traditional story of adolescent reputation run heinously amok, punctuated by the mom of all teen film tropes: a wonderfully choreographed promenade dance.
Regardless of preliminary critiques, “She’s All That” hit No. 1 on the field workplace throughout its debut week and grossed over $103 million worldwide ― making these at Miramax (together with a now disgraced producer named Harvey Weinstein) very joyful. Its theater success and subsequent Blockbuster rental enchantment all however ensured that each child with entry to a VHS participant may memorize the strikes to a music nobody remembers being known as “The Rockafeller Skank.”
The promenade scene, choreographed by then-newcomer and now very profitable director Adam Shankman, featured a 1960s impressed quantity set to Fatboy Slim’s ill-titled music. It was orchestrated, partially, by the one and solely Usher Raymond. Lil’ Kim danced in line; Gabrielle Union adopted. Even Anna Paquin made a rapid stop-by.
The scene so completely encapsulates the teenager film wave of 1999 ― with its indulgent premises, unrealistic main characters and wildly unrelatable highschool battle ― which is why HuffPost took a visit down reminiscence lane to debate the making of the sequence with “She’s All That” solid and crew members, together with Cook dinner, Shankman and director Robert Iscove.
Mud off your boombox, crank some Sixpence None the Richer and pour your self a Yoo-hoo as a result of, proper about now, the funk soul brother… or no matter.
Discovering The Spam To Make It All Stick
How the solid and crew got here collectively below the unlucky management of Harvey and Bob Weinstein of Miramax Movies.
Robert Iscove (director): I had simply accomplished “Cinderella” with Whitney Houston and Brandy, and I used to be one in every of 2,000 administrators being thought of for “Chicago,” the film. Harvey known as me about that as a result of each Whitney and Brandy had advisable me to him. So we began speaking about “Chicago” and what my tackle it might be. After which the film obtained placed on maintain, and Harvey mentioned, “Within the meantime, I’ve this comedy I would love you to do.” It was a trial of how we have been going to work collectively, and it turned “She’s All That.”
Rachael Leigh Cook dinner (Laney Boggs): I don’t actually even keep in mind what my first audition was. I keep in mind the second was the display screen take a look at and the studio was largely darkish with a light-weight and a easy digital camera taking pictures me — it wasn’t a typical audition room. I wore a T-shirt that I obtained from a storage sale again in Minnesota, the place I’m from, a really previous T-shirt from the Artwork Institute of Chicago, which was very unflattering however, I assumed, very character-appropriate. I feel I nonetheless have it someplace as a result of it looks like a fortunate factor.
Robert: Harvey was actually leaning towards Rachael. At that time, Rachael was the one one who was even being talked about. When Harvey will get behind one thing, not less than at the moment, he was fantastic about getting the most effective and the brightest as a result of he had his fingers in so many pies. He knew who each upcoming younger starlet was, and that’s one of many causes I feel we wound up with such an incredible solid.
Rachael: I imply, in mild of all the things that we discovered, I suppose I’m joyful for my very own sake to report that I used to be by no means a lot as invited to lunch [with Harvey]. I had by no means acquired any private consideration from him in any respect. I used to be informed that they preferred my work within the different motion pictures that I had accomplished for them [“House of Yes” and “All I Wanna Do”], and that’s most likely why I obtained this half.
Robert: We have been studying each younger actor in Hollywood. Freddie [Prinze Jr.] had accomplished “I Know What You Did Final Summer season,” however I don’t know an excessive amount of greater than that. He was one of many names [being tossed around], and I met him and thought, “That is our man.” Then, proper after we obtained Paul [Walker]. Richard Gladstein, who labored for [Quentin] Tarantino’s firm, was one of many producers on “She’s All That” and knew Paul, so we had a gathering and Paul was nice. He had accomplished “Varsity Blues” and the Disney film “Meet the Deedles,” however once more was on the very begin of his profession. As soon as we obtained the three of them, just about everybody wished to be within the film.
Jodi Lyn O’Keefe (Taylor Vaughan): I’m certain it didn’t damage that I used to be coming off of “Halloween H20.” Taylor was your typical entitled woman, and I had experiences with a number of someones who have been like her in highschool, so it was really fairly simple for me to drag from that. Everyone is aware of that woman, it’s true!
Robert: We had M. Evening [Shyamalan], who was making an attempt to begin his profession, do a cross on the script [by R. Lee Fleming Jr.]. Then we had these actors at their begins — even from Milo Ventimiglia doing a tiny little position, and Clea DuVall as Misty, Kieran Culkin taking part in the youthful brother and Anna Paquin, who was 16 when she did the film.
Rachael: Kieran was nice. I’ve completely cherished watching his profession utterly take off and love his present “Succession.” If it was on proper now, I most likely would’ve pretended that I used to be busy and couldn’t speak as a result of I like it a lot.
Robert: Freddie was additionally beginning to date Sarah Michelle Gellar, and he mentioned, “Would you thoughts if Sarah got here on and did a cameo? She doesn’t wish to speak, however…” And I mentioned, “Carry her on! We’ll put her into the cafeteria.” And it wasn’t attorneys saying, “Oh, she’s on this ‘Buffy’ sequence, and may you afford her?” It was, “She’s right here, she needs to do it.”
Rachael: How was she even free for 10 minutes? I’m so confused about that. She’s an angel for doing that.
Robert: The truth that we obtained so fortunate discovering these individuals at the moment of their lives with a script like that was lightning in a bottle.
Jodi: We have been all actually younger and beginning out, and there was simply this power of pleasure each single day. Getting as much as go to work early within the morning was a pleasure, and we by no means wished to go away. We have been all having such a good time.
Wait, Did You Say Dance Sequence?
The solid members have been thrilled to be part of the film, however as soon as they heard a couple of choreographed dance routine, freakouts commenced.
Jodi: I don’t assume they’d any of us dance once we auditioned. [Laughs] They possibly ought to have!
Rachael: I didn’t even learn the script or notice there was going to be a full-on manufacturing quantity. I chalk that as much as being comparatively new to the enterprise. Each set is completely different, however I used to be not prepared for what occurred these days.
Jodi: I knew there was a promenade scene, however I didn’t notice we have been all dancing and it was going to be choreographed. Even proper up till the time we have been on the point of shoot!
Robert: [The dance sequence] wasn’t really within the script. After we have been taking pictures, Freddie and Rachael each mentioned that they’d by no means been to a promenade, so I made a decision I’d give them an excellent promenade and make it appear like a ballroom someplace in downtown L.A., just like the Biltmore or one thing like that.
Rachael: I’m calling bullshit on what Rob mentioned. That’s ridiculous. Rob was a choreographer, and this was an ideal storm with the truth that our producer Jennifer Gibgot’s brother is Adam Shankman. The Adam Shankman. A legendary choreographer. So between the 2 of them, it’s a miracle the entire film wasn’t a Busby Berkeley musical!
Robert: I used to be a choreographer for years. I choreographed the movie of “Jesus Christ Celebrity.” I directed and choreographed “Peter Pan” on Broadway with Sandy Duncan, a very long time in the past. I did Alice Cooper’s “Welcome to My Nightmare.” I’m a Juilliard graduate. However Adam Shankman choreographed this scene. His sister, Jennifer Gibgot, was one of many co-producers at Tapestry Movies, who produced “She’s All That.” Jennifer was speaking about her brother who wished to be a director. He had simply accomplished a video showcasing his choreographic work, and I checked out it and went, “That is unbelievable, and this could work completely for [the prom scene].” And mainly, Adam tailored his reel to turn out to be the dance quantity in “She’s All That.”
Adam Shankman (choreographer): Jennifer was placing collectively this extremely low-budget film, and I used to be working as a choreographer on the time, and he or she simply reached out and mentioned, “We’ve got a few sequences. Rob, the director, would love these numbers to be actually elevated. Would you come and provides me a hand?” And it’s my sister, what am I going to do, say no? So I did.
I saved making an attempt to grasp [the dance scene] as a result of I used to be involved that, tonally, it wouldn’t match into the remainder of the film. Rob has a musical background, and he was actually dedicated to this concept, and so I used to be identical to, “Hear, I’ll do the most effective I can, and also you’ll should determine it out.”
Robert: Wanting on the script, should you take the dance quantity out of the promenade scene, which is just about the climax of the film — Is she going to be promenade queen or is she not going to be promenade queen? — it is extremely brief. So, I wished to broaden it and provides it extra display screen time. Additionally, I wished to point out Bob and Harvey, “That is what you are able to do with dance on movie,” as a result of Bob, particularly, didn’t perceive musical numbers or how they might work in movies in any respect.
Adam: That was like a no-fly zone on the time. That was lifeless on arrival. There have been no musicals being made again then. So, I cherished what a giant swing Rob was taking, and I supported it, clearly, as a theater individual and an individual who loves dance. However, yeah, it was actually difficult. I really like the irony that, in the end, it was Weinstein who made “Chicago,” proper? [Laughs]
Robert: I wished to point out that dance and music can additional story. That’s additionally why I did the efficiency artwork ― I wished a scene the place each Laney and Zack see one another in a completely completely different means, which is basically the turning level of their relationship. The dance on the promenade was, “That is leisure and folks will like it.” And the efficiency artwork was, “This conserves story.”
Rachael: I preferred the efficiency artwork scene. I keep in mind considering that the hacky sack half was going to be fairly awkward, and I used to be glad that I didn’t have to do this. The half I needed to do actually tracked for my character. However the factor that balanced out the dance scene is that the primary individual to bop a choreographed routine was Matthew Lillard’s character [Brock Hudson].
Adam: There was one other scene with Matthew Lillard, which I did actually rapidly. I feel we labored for like an hour within the area earlier than we shot. That was identical to somewhat comedy bit.
Rachael: There’s a lot ridiculousness with him doing a dance quantity on the home celebration that it’s not that a lot of a shock, I suppose, when the entire of the auditorium bursts right into a choreographed quantity at promenade.
“Lead Me Out On The Moonlit Ground”
With nerves skyrocketing, it was time to herald the professionals.
Rachael: There have been dozens dancers round. Now, have been favors known as in? Most likely, as a result of I don’t understand how they might’ve afforded all of those actually superior professionals.
Bree Turner (dancer and actress): On the time, there was this area of interest market of retro musical numbers. I did “The Huge Lebowski” and “My Greatest Pal’s Marriage ceremony,” as nicely.
It’s a small group, and the identical dancers preserve getting employed and also you begin to discover your choreographer. Adam used to rent me on a regular basis, so I used to be kind of in his crew. Adam’s model could be very retro-influenced, and I possessed this vibe that he preferred ― kind of ’60s, wild Ann-Margret actions. So I made sense for Adam’s choreography. He was at first of his path to desirous to be a director, and round that point he did this brief movie known as “Cosmo’s Story,” which was his first directing second. I booked that job for Adam, so I feel he simply known as me [for “She’s All That”], too?
Adam: All of it occurred so quick that I didn’t even maintain an audition. I feel I simply known as individuals and mentioned, “Hey, are you able to come down?” We shot in Lengthy Seashore ― on the Cerritos Artwork Middle, I feel, was the place that scene was really shot. So I provided the job and mentioned, “Everyone’s simply going to do the most effective we are able to.” And everyone simply sort of jumped in.
Rachael: I simply keep in mind making the case that my character wouldn’t know the dance, and that was met with some resistance. However then they noticed me dance and determined I used to be proper.
Adam: Freddie and Rachael weren’t even obtainable as a result of they have been working. I put anybody who was obtainable to rehearse within the scene, and I rehearsed everyone in a foyer for like two hours. The actors got here in for like an hour. [Laughs]
Jodi: Rehearsals have been happening whereas we have been filming. It was just about whenever you had time you went and also you discovered the routine and then you definately danced it.
Rachael: They didn’t hassle [having me rehearse]. I feel they’d me doing one of many minor arm-flail motions that was featured for all of two seconds and that was it. I used to be very a lot involved about my very own expertise, and I used to be glad that I didn’t should do it. I used to be largely in my trailer after I obtained over the visible spectacle of watching it a number of instances.
Robert: Freddie and Rachael stroll by means of the quantity in some unspecified time in the future. Then I wished the previous Soul Prepare stroll from the ’50s and ’60s, the place all of the principals come down the road, which the actors improvised. However Jodi is featured. Her character within the film is that in the event that they’re going to do a quantity, Taylor goes to ensure she’s the star of that quantity. There’s no means her character wouldn’t do this. She wouldn’t let different individuals take the highlight away from her. And Jodi mentioned, “After all I can do that!” Like most actors, “Are you able to experience a horse?” “After all I can!” “Are you able to dance?” “After all I can!” So she obtained in with Adam and his assistant Anne Fletcher, who’s turn out to be a director in her personal proper, and he or she discovered the dance.
Jodi: After they informed me, I used to be shocked, like, “I’ve to be taught what now?!” [Laughs] The one saving grace for me was once I was very younger I did somewhat little bit of dancing, and possibly simply having somewhat little bit of rhythm and a few luck helped me.
Rachael: After all Taylor Vaughan has to do the dance. I’m not going to stay up for her if she didn’t wish to do it, she has to do it! However Jodi was nice ― she’s an excellent dancer.
Bree: I really keep in mind Jodi being an excellent dancer, and he or she was completely all in. Simply effortlessly attractive and fearless in her strategy to it. The dancers all actually cherished Jodi!
Jodi: I needed to be taught that total routine, and also you solely see me dance for a number of seconds! I keep in mind being so intimidated out on the Cerritos Middle for the Performing Arts, being surrounded by these skilled dancers.
Bree: Jodi was so open and communal with the expertise with us. As a dancer, you’re simply stoked to be part of it, so we jumped on the probability to assist her out. She was adorably self-deprecating about it, and I assumed she was so nice. Wanting again, I keep in mind her floor-length gown and her highlighted hair! [Laughs] Simply the style was so ’90s! However so good.
Rachael: I can nonetheless image that loopy gold gown they’d her put on, and I keep in mind a whole lot of face and physique glitter. Improbable. She’s most likely nonetheless venting over that from 20 years in the past.
Jodi: We clearly obtained somewhat little bit of enter [on wardrobe], and there have been a number of decisions laid out for every of us. I feel my gown felt like pajamas once I put it on. It was really easy to maneuver round in. Crushed gold velvet!
Bree: We have been feeling scorching! All of us felt like we appeared fairly, fairly good.
Watching the clip and having bodily physique reminiscence, I may do this dance proper now. All I needed to do was watch it one time and I completely keep in mind the strikes in my physique. Too dangerous this isn’t an in-person interview. You can’ve seen my previous, 42-year-old physique doing that!
U Remind Me Of A Boy That I As soon as Knew
Usher’s star was rising after the discharge of his second album, “My Manner,” in 1997. After being featured in “Moesha” and “The School,” he was solid in “She’s All That” because the campus DJ, as a result of these existed in highschool, proper?
Bree: Hey! Usher was the promenade DJ! He was barely Usher on the time ― he wasn’t actually well-known then. Nobody was actually well-known again then! They have been all simply 20-something children. What a visit.
Rachael: I keep in mind being utterly starstruck by Usher as a result of I had purchased the “You Make Me Wanna” single in 1997 and thought it was unbelievable that I used to be in his presence. And he couldn’t have been nicer!
Adam: What I imagine occurred was once they examined audiences, they have been like, “Wait, why is that this huge musical quantity occurring?” And so Rob went and did a fast reshoot with Usher.
Robert: Bob saved saying, “I don’t know. How do they know all these dance strikes?” Which is why he made us return and discover Usher after he’d accomplished the preliminary filming. He was on tour, and he flew out to Detroit or someplace within the Midwest, and we obtained on this tiny room and created this DJ sales space. He did these strains saying, “Dance Membership, keep in mind these strikes I taught you?” Which have been there to appease Bob. Fortunately, it examined rather well in previews. I feel if it hadn’t, Bob and Harvey wouldn’t have been nice about letting me preserve the dance within the film.
Rachael: That sounds 100 p.c correct. I feel that including these voiceovers is barely rivaled by the weird nature of the dance itself, however, hey, no matter will get you there.
Jodi: I used to be fairly blown away by Lil’ Kim, to be trustworthy! [Laughs] I obtained to shoot together with her on a regular basis, and he or she was round and a part of my crew, so I used to be somewhat bit extra blown away by her than I used to be by Usher. I keep in mind taking pictures together with her and considering that she was fairly probably the sweetest woman in the entire world.
Bree: Lil’ Kim! I really labored together with her one other time on “Moesha” once I had a recurring position on a few seasons. I saved circling Lil’ Kim, which mainly gave me life.
Jodi: It doesn’t get a lot better than Lil’ Kim and Gabrielle Union as your on-screen greatest pals. I noticed Gabrielle lately, and we had a very lengthy catch-up, which was actually enjoyable.
Rachael: Gabrielle and I, even again then, have been with the identical administration firm. She’s at all times been one of many nicest people you may ever meet. We just about run in several circles and I by no means see her, however I’d be joyful to run into her.
Bree: Jodi and I’d see one another by means of the years at auditions and social occasions, and we turned pals. I used to see Rachael at auditions, and Freddie, they have been so good. All of them have been so darling with the dancers and such candy children. No perspective, no ego, simply togetherness.
Editor’s word: Usher was “deep within the studio recording” once I reached out for remark. Forgive him, as a result of I do.
The Funk Soul Brother
Let’s face it, the dance quantity wouldn’t be full with out Fatboy Slim’s “The Rockafeller Skank,” which calls for epic strikes, after all.
Katy Ellis (Fatboy Slim’s rep): I did converse to Norman [Quentin Cook, aka Fatboy Slim] about this. He’s by no means really watched the movie, and likewise these days have been hazy so he doesn’t actually have a lot to report back to you, I’m afraid!
Robert: Our composer was Stewart Copeland of the Police, so there was a certain quantity of music cachet already with the movie. We didn’t get as a lot resistance as we’d have.
[Our music supervisor] Amanda Demme introduced me Fatboy Slim, and from the time she confirmed it to us, that was undoubtedly the music. There was some dialogue about utilizing it as a result of it had come out six months earlier than, and so it might’ve been a yr that it had been out by the point the movie was launched. However “Rockafeller Skank” was simply such an incredible quantity and we went, “We’ll give it new life.” Which we did.
Adam: They threw the music at me, and to be able to create synchronized choreography and likewise the enjoyable feeling that it was a musical quantity, I needed to discover a language that was each enjoyable and customary. You realize, it’s not a hip-hop music, so it didn’t name for any of that choreography. I simply began to mix what the music was kind of telling me to do. The undercurrent of that’s rockabilly guitar and all of that musicality that hearkens again to the interval from which I drew the choreographic vocabulary. It’s dangerous to push in opposition to the music, I feel, in scenes like that, particularly when there’s a whole lot of narrative happening, so I went with what was there.
Bree: I really like that music! It’s such a pump-up music. You’ll be able to’t not transfer your physique when that music comes on.
Rachael: I really feel like I can nonetheless hear that music taking part in in my thoughts and I by no means want to listen to it once more. I can’t think about any context during which I’d ever hear “Rockefeller Skank” performed ― like not even at a Ceremony Assist or an ironic celebration would somebody throw that on. Watch, possibly there shall be some millennial DJ who will remix it with one thing cool. However I don’t assume I’m prepared for that.
Adam: After I hear that music, I’m 100 p.c drawn proper again into that dance.
Robert: The songs that we obtained, in addition to the rating, have been fairly spectacular. “Kiss Me” was at all times the music from the primary time Amanda performed it for us, too. The title of the movie in France was “Elle Est Trop Bien,” which is sort of “She’s All That,” however in Italy it was “Kiss Me.” They used the title of the music because the title of the movie.
Rachael: In case you can keep in mind two songs from a film, that’s an epic soundtrack. I’m not educated about these items, clearly, however yeah.
“I Am A Goddamn Legacy, All Proper?”
Regardless of some latest “blowback” over the male protagonist’s motives, as Rachael described it, “She’s All That” continues to be a feel-good teen film that many people may, and do, watch over and over.
Rachael: These dance scenes, nevertheless barely misplaced, are one in every of three issues that folks convey as much as me once they speak in regards to the film. And I like it. I by no means want to listen to “funk soul brother” once more, however I like it.
Adam: Hilariously, aside from “Hairspray” stuff, it’s essentially the most quoted piece of choreography I feel I’ve ever accomplished. It simply penetrated common tradition a lot. It’s so humorous as a result of we have been flying by the seat of our pants.
Rachael: “She’s All That” got here out in a very completely different period. Everybody manufacturers this a makeover film, and it’s, however to me Laney’s largest drawback — and that is me simply approaching it as an actor — was her perspective. She has simply as many preconceptions in regards to the Zack character as he did about her. The issue being, after all, that Laney’s proper, and he or she’s confirmed proper. Then, on the very finish, she’s incorrect by advantage of his evolution.
Robert: I used to be very influenced by the John Hughes motion pictures of the ’80s, and I used to be making an attempt to do one thing within the ’90s that will converse to a unique technology and but nonetheless resonate. It has a coronary heart to it that’s essential. Zack needed to be worthy of Laney, in addition to Laney understanding that she needed to open herself as much as Zack.
Rachael: However nonetheless, it’s most likely a tougher promote this present day. There’s been a whole lot of blowback or pretty pointed criticism in regards to the plot of the film, which is comprehensible.
Bree: It’s like this attractive, angelic Rachael Leigh Cook dinner with, “Oh, no, we don’t discover her.” After which, “Take your glasses off! Oh, God, you’re beautiful!” [Laughs]
Robert: I don’t assume in a drama in the present day we may set it as much as have Laney do the transformation, of which just about no one was going to imagine anyway ― aside from seeing Clark Kent morph into Superman. However she goes down the steps and now we have her journey and fall. We’re clearly simply taking the piss out of ourselves doing that since you’ve seen it in one million motion pictures earlier than. I don’t know should you may do this lightness in the present day. While you watch TV reveals like “Riverdale” and all that, the world has gotten darker, so the teenager angst has gotten darker. There was a lightness to “She’s All That.” A heaviness to the dramatic scenes, after all, however you may additionally poke enjoyable at it and never take your self severely.
Jodi: I’m not tremendous acquainted with many teen dramas proper now, so I can’t converse to that. However we simply felt like trailblazers.
Rachael: We have been first out of the gate. I keep in mind it was a really strategic transfer by Miramax to get the film launched inside most likely two months of our wrap as a result of we knew that there was a wave of different teen motion pictures coming ― “Varsity Blues” and “10 Issues I Hate About You” ― so that they have been simply on a mission, which is basically sensible.
Robert: It was nice that there have been so many motion pictures individuals wished to see in 1999.
Adam: You can take larger dangers then as a result of the house video market was so sturdy. There have been so many individuals counting on the extremely very important residence video market to care for them if a film didn’t carry out in addition to they’d hoped on the field workplace. Then streaming began and the house video market tanked, and that mid-budget comedy simply went away.
Robert: Again then, it felt like I used to be breaking into the large boys’ membership as a result of my film was beginning to generate profits and I used to be being handled as a filmmaker versus simply making an attempt to interrupt into the enterprise from TV. I used to be simply coasting on the excessive of “She’s All That.”
Adam: It wasn’t as crowded when it comes to what number of shops there have been ― studios have been making extra motion pictures. I took “A Stroll to Keep in mind” whereas I used to be in publish [production] on “Marriage ceremony Planner,” and I used to be taking jobs as a result of, like a dancer, they have been provided to me. I simply was so flabbergasted somebody was entrusting me on this means and I used to be attending to work with these individuals.
Rachael: Twenty years actually does really feel just like the blink of a watch. I used to be really 18 once we have been making this film, and time actually does velocity up the extra life you reside.
Jodi: I’m in denial somewhat bit. I can’t imagine that a lot time has handed. I can’t imagine that was kind of the start of all the things for me.